02-12-2018, 05:37 PM
(02-12-2018, 02:47 AM)CoolingDude Wrote: If there was another referendum, maybe it should be on what sort of Brexit we want; option A "Hard" option B "Soft/ Chequers". I'm surprised this hasn't been touted; seems like an easy way out for May; kicks the can down the road a bit and polling suggest the public would probably support her deal over a Hard Brexit
More voting, more division. I see no positives here, and no end in site regardless of how it pans out
Even at the time, but especially in hindsight, it seems totally bananas that no-one was consulted either before or just after the Referendum to establish what they actually voted for. They voted against being in the EU, but what for?
Now TM wants us all to push on with her deal because otherwise we're back to square one. Well, yes, and who's fault is that? She never asked what people wanted from Brexit, chose her own interpretation, and now she's surprised to arrive at the destination to find that no-one else was on board.
It would have opened up a right can of worms asking at the time, but nowhere near as big as this can. To have proceeded for 2.5 years with no idea what we're aiming for is unforgivable for me, and of course we still have no real idea what we're aiming for - that'll take another 4 years at least.
IMV - the embarrassment of reverting with the EU would be palpable, but well worth paying. They'd also be relieved not to have to be wasting time negotiating a trade deal with us for the next god knows how many years. Other crises will quickly take up the news as they always do.
The alternative of proceeding with this deal, as nearly everyone recognises on both sides, leaves us as a peculiar adjunct to Europe and effectively stuck for years in a non-EU/EU limbo.
My personal view is that having a referendum is by far the least worst option. If a Brexit option is chosen, then it has an actual mandate (not just a vague 'any of the above' as per the 1st). If we remain, as I believe we would, then embarrassment fades. prosperity remains.
The worst consequence otherwise of remaining is the possible social unrest/trust in politicians factor. Personally, I don't see a further public vote based upon the actual options (rather than the fantasyland the 1st vote was) as undemocratic.
In fact, what TM is trying to do now is the very undemocratic thing as far as I'm concerned, as no-one voted for this and no-one would. Also, it's difficult to measure, but there is certainly a very large portion of the public at present who really hate this deal and feel disenfranchised by it already. Asking them if they want should be mandatory, not a last resort.
One last thing, if we did end up having a ref. and remaining, then there would of course be an actual 'Brexit dividend' rather than the fake one presented to us now. We wouldn't need to spend billions on trade talks with the EU, we wouldn't need to build a bloody satellite, we wouldn't need to create a whole new Border Force system.
I'd like to see some of that money that we've somehow now realised we had all along but never had before (remember TM's line - there are no 'magic money trees', until she found £1bn for the DUP the next week) actually spent on resolving some of the issues that people had in the first place that led to them voting Brexit.
Also, the Govt. should actually try and find a pragmatic solution to concerns on immigration. People's concerns aren't (always) racist, and they don't necessarily need us to leave the E.U to do something about it
Unfortunately, if we proceed with this turd of a deal, all of our politicians budgets and time will be spent for years in negotiating 'the way forward', which let's face it will in the end be incredibly similar to being in the EU but a hell of a lot more expensive.
It's impossible to say how and when, but how can the Government continuing to focus on only one issue (as they have been for the last 2.5 years) not cause a huge amount of further damage to the social fabric long-term? If we continue to disregard reform to the NHS, social care, education etc in favour of this one stupid issue it just cannot be a good thing.
Thanks for letting me vent. Twitter is too frustratingly limiting sometimes.
Also, further benefit, if we remain, then I can invest in Weston Rhyn with peace of mind. Good news for me, good news for the people of Weston Rhyn